A Most Unreasonable Conversation...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
This is the actual transcript of a conversation I had recently with a "friend." It was an instant message session. To protect this person's identity, I've deleted all references to their name and replaced it with "xxxxx." I had come across a video making the rounds about an alleged recording of Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu where he makes some controversial remarks about America. This "friend" is Jewish, I am not. Having this video fresh in my mind, I asked this person their thoughts on it. We have discussed politics before on several occasions and we usually disagree. Still, especially on this issue, I was interested in their thoughts...

Here is how the conversation unfolded. Other than the redaction of their name, the content is unchanged...


(I'll comment further below...)

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xxxxx: How are things on the left, Bill?

CorfieldB: Not sure, let me look over there...

CorfieldB: ah, they look to be the same as usual..

xxxxx: ha ha ha!  Have a wonderful and restful weekend...

CorfieldB: Did you see this thing about Bibi (Benjamin Netanyahu) getting recorded and saying some stuff about the u.s.?

CorfieldB: u2

xxxxx: no...

CorfieldB: http://crooksandliars.com/ian-welsh/israeli-pm-natanyahu-america-easily-move

xxxxx: Bibi was a serious commando...bad dude for real...

CorfieldB: I'd appreciate some perspective from your viewpoint...

xxxxx: ha ha ha...hold on...

CorfieldB: he made these (re)marks during the Bush administration, 9 years ago...

CorfieldB: ok

CorfieldB: I'll be right back....

xxxxx: ok

CorfieldB: back

xxxxx: It's an absurd video where the Hebrew dialogue does not match what the lips are saying...This Ian Welsh is obviously a Jew hater.  But I'll tell you this, Bill...Oslo was a horrible deal.  The palestinians lived up to none of it and the only reason Israel signed it was out of desperation.  The left wing element in Israel, the Peace Now Movement, forced the government to sign.  I understand why, too.  I was living there.  Their children were coming home in boxes...dead.  Dead from school.  Dead from taking a bus.  Dead from being kidnaped and murdered by palestinians.  They were desperate...That's why they signed it.  The result?  A record number of Israelis were killed after Oslo was signed.  The palestinians are the ones you should be focusing in on for all these accusations of "liars and crooks".   Get real Bill.

CorfieldB: I'm just trying to figure out what to make of it...

CorfieldB: so you're saying its a fraud....which makes it meaningless...

xxxxx: Oslo was another sham in a long line of shams perpetrated by a duplicitous US Government who continually stabs their friends in the back...Bibi is no fool...I'll tell you that.  He is much smarter than you can ever believe...

xxxxx: But he never as foolish as this video would have you believe.  He never speaks "unguarded".  Never....

CorfieldB: What if it was true?

xxxxx: And what if it isn't?  What do you say then, Bill...Let me hear what you would say if it wasn't?  This i gotta hear...

CorfieldB: I don't really have an opinion on this. I'm mostly asking myself why a 9 yr. old video is surfacing now...that's fishy to me...

CorfieldB: Thanks for looking at it, anyway...

xxxxx: Don't waste your time with this obviously doctored, propaganda film put out by a vicious left wing conspiracy theorist...It's absurd...

xxxxx: If I told you what real Jews think...i mean the real inside deal...It would turn your hair white.

CorfieldB: Ok, dinner time...have a great weekend....

xxxxx: Did you hear what your buddy Achmedinajad said the other day?  Talk about liars and crooks...

CorfieldB: Hold up, how is he my buddy?

xxxxx: I thought all anti Israel thugs were your buddy.  I never once heard you say one kind word about Israel so please forgive the assumption...

xxxxx: Keep watching Al jezeera and let the poison permanently stain your soul...

CorfieldB: I just don't subscribe to the same slant you do on things, so I guess that makes me border line anti-israel or some garbage, I guess...Frankly it seems to me, and I think a lot of americans that Israel is in a bad place, and isn't exactly surrounded by friends...On the other hand, we are Israel's lifeblood and it seems that a lot of times we take our marching orders from them...Most americans don't really understand all the nuance to things over there. I know, I sure don't...

xxxxx: Why in the world are listening to Al Jezeera?

xxxxx: are you

xxxxx: It's poison, bill.

CorfieldB: I have a few jewish friends in the Dayton area and when I ask them about this stuff, they say they're afraid Bibi is going to pick a fight with the wrong guy and cause all of israel of suffer. they think more should be done to work with their neuighbors for peace, not always dictate terms

CorfieldB: I read Al jezzera for their take on events in the US more than anything...its one of the opinions I consider...sometimes I think they make sense, sometimes I don't...

CorfieldB: anyway, Do i think your views on israel are wrong because they don't jive with the people I speak to around here? No, its two different opinions...both of you probably speak some truth...

CorfieldB: Gotta go...dinner time....please don't assume that I'm some anti israel thug just because I don't share your opinion 100%....That is offensive and you can't find anything I've ever written anywhere that was remotely close to anti jewish.


 ...later


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  Its attitudes like this that drove me to start my own blog and call it Reasonable Conversation.


  I want to be really clear about what I object to with this. It's not the obvious passion I find distasteful. I think this person has deep, sincere feelings about Israel. I don't question that. I respect that. Its the eagerness to go on the attack against a strawman that offends. I wanted a "reasonable conversation" with this person about this video and instead I got attacked, called names and virtually accused of being anti-Israel. Yes, I understand he doesn't think much of the video, yet any chance of a greater understanding on my part pretty much got blasted out of the water by the straw man approach.


  I thought back to my very first post, about what I wanted this blog to be...


From May 2, 2011...
  

I've called this blog "Reasonable Conversation," because that's my goal. That's the first thing all of us will see each day when we log in and hopefully it will give us pause to think before we write. If you disagree with me, fine. If you've got facts, sources, etc. that shows that my position is wrong, that's fair. If all you have is tired old talking points or a debate style where you start with straw man arguments and then resort to excited rhetoric, well...that's not really what I'm looking for. If that's what you bring to the blog, expect to be asked to back that up. I'm not holding anyone to a standard I won't try and hold myself to.

You hear this all around us. Whether its a friend, a co-worker, classmate, Fox News, MSNBC or talk radio...these strawmen arguments consume energy and lead us away from understanding, not closer to. Its an easy trap to fall into, I know I have. I try not to...

This was a rather stunning example of an all too common problem in how people talk to each other today...